Curse

keli · Aug 10, 2008, 09:21 AM // 09:21

This war is not easy to understand. Russia wants to prove that they are still a global superpower(and they want to establish there influence in the was-Soviet countrys), while the USA wants to sabotage Russia where it can (american technology and weapons in the hands of the georgian army, Ukraine-NATO conflict, Rocket systems in the Chezch Republic...). Shakasvili is the head of the georgian american puppet goverment. So i can understand that Russia doesnt like the growing american impact in the Caukasus. And by the way, Shakasvili is a mad irresponsible idiot, why the hell did he declare war against the russians? With this he tortures his own nation and gets many citizens to be killed.

And yes, this war is not about the Southern-osets, its about the USA and Russia, and about the oil (a high priority oil pipe is going through Georgia).

Sorry for my english, i hope you can understand what i want to say.

zwei2stein · Aug 10, 2008, 09:45 AM // 09:45

a) Olympics - if no-war clause was held, USA would have never been allowed to join.

b) Assaulting small countries on pretense of defending yourself / bringing em peace while really wanting to secure their resource is nothing US was ever shy of. Why is Russia different? Hell, russians did is way less in past.

c) Russia was thoroughly RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOed by West in past few years from russian pow: http://mat-rodina.blogspot.com/2008/...uld-never.html - read points 10 to 14. US-sympathisants or puppet govts should not expect continued existence or mercy if they are on russias doorstep. They should expect to be replaced by pro-russia puppets asap.

d) War was never about fair play. If you are guaranteed to win, you attack, if it is "fair play" situation with both sides equally powerfull, you don't attack and make it so you have decisive advantage. Asserting that any country should play fair is notion deserving bitchslap.

edit:

f) Finland pulled "Finland" on russia because they had unique strategic advangate that noone really knew about untill it was too late.

Necrotic · Aug 10, 2008, 09:55 AM // 09:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Avarre

Are you literally trying to imply Russia staged the attack on South Ossetia that killed Russian citizens, among thousands of civilians?

No doubt both sides are upscaling the provocations that led to conflict, though. I don't know how reliable reports are on Russian peacekeepers being killed are, etc, but war is pretty confusing.

I am betting that he meant that either side could be doing this....or some other tactic to hide and confuse the truth.

Avarre · Aug 10, 2008, 10:02 AM // 10:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Necrotic

I am betting that he meant that either side could be doing this....or some other tactic to hide and confuse the truth.

That's pretty reasonable to assume. Just didn't like the reference.

Thanks for info Keli, iirc the US sells weapons to Georgia and it was near being brought into NATO? Going to be huge tensions over that.

zwei2stein · Aug 10, 2008, 10:17 AM // 10:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Necrotic

I am betting that he meant that either side could be doing this....or some other tactic to hide and confuse the truth.

I dont see any reason for invadee to initiate war. They didn't have anything to gain by pissing russians off even more.

dunky_g · Aug 10, 2008, 01:07 PM // 13:07

I dont see russia losing!

Divinitys Creature · Aug 10, 2008, 01:24 PM // 13:24

WTF stop pls so the ppls don't die D;

zwei2stein · Aug 11, 2008, 12:41 PM // 12:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Divinitys Creature

WTF stop pls so the ppls don't die D;

Actually its: Don't stop this, or people will die.

Anyhow, here is some perspective: http://www.russiablog.org/2008/08/wa...ia_putting.php

Anarkii · Aug 11, 2008, 01:49 PM // 13:49

I am heavily biased on this topic(towards Russia) but seriously, if UN does any kind of shenanigans on this issue it's going to be absurd. I really don't understand how Georgia thought it'll get away with it...unless its plan involved crying to U.S for help.

Metalmaster · Aug 11, 2008, 01:53 PM // 13:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Avarre

I don't suppose we have anyone from these regions who can provide some better information?

What regions? Georgia and South Ossetia? I don't think so.

It's a very complicated matter.. well ofc if you are american and honestly believes that your TV is only and absolute truth, when it's not.
Surprisingly from our point of view the situation looks completely different.

I don't want to discuss it actually. It's far from Moscow, i don't have any friends there so i can only get info from TV and net.
How someone who's living on the other side of the globe can judge who's right or wrong? It's beyond my comprehension.

Thanks to Avarre & zwei2stein and all others who provided facts and opinions instead of bashing "bad russians attacking good georgians".

Quote:

Originally Posted by Winterclaw

I think Russia should be banned from the next winter and summer olympics (if not more) for breaking from the traditions of the games. At the least they could have waited 2 weeks to attack.

GTFO. You are one of those idiots who's giving the USA a bad name.

P.S. We have just the same idiots in Russia and they aren't any better.

Wretchman Drake · Aug 11, 2008, 09:02 PM // 21:02

Sakasvilli had no choice.

Ossetian rebels were bombarding Georgia since few days from their positions in the Russian part of Ossetia. He was asking Russia many times to do something about that, but they did nothing. Sakasvilli had no choice but to attack those territories. Now Putin had a reason to attak Georgia. The Georgian defence action against the Ossetian attacks was called by the Russian government as a "enthical cleaning".

It was all set up. Russian army had tactical maneuvers next to the Georgia border since one month, and there were some leaks that they were supposed to invade Georgia near the 20th of July. The rebels most probably had a green light from Russians, since the peace corps didn't act when they started to attack Georgia.

Sakasvilli had nothing to do with starting this war. It's all Putin and the russian political lobby.

Urban_Nomad · Aug 12, 2008, 06:07 PM // 18:07

I don't know anything about who shot first, but this whole thing doesn't surprise me considering how poorly Russia's been treated by the 'Western' countries over the past years. I guess this is kind of like Kosovo, only the other way around this time.

Divinitys Creature · Aug 12, 2008, 06:17 PM // 18:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by zwei2stein

Actually its: Don't stop this, or people will die.

Anyhow, here is some perspective: http://www.russiablog.org/2008/08/wa...ia_putting.php

That's very illuminating TY.

Faer · Aug 12, 2008, 06:22 PM // 18:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Winterclaw

I think Russia should be banned from the next winter and summer olympics (if not more) for breaking from the traditions of the games. At the least they could have waited 2 weeks to attack.

Just like China could have at least waited to host the Olympics until they stopped murdering innocent Tibet citizens.

Oh, wait a second...

Snow Bunny · Aug 12, 2008, 06:25 PM // 18:25

I'm relatively confused about this, hopefully someone can clarify.

The region, Ossetia, was autonomous, right? So why can't Georgia attack it without Russian involvement, without regards for the fact that Putin is a fairly aggressive and autocratic head of the Russian state?

Secondly, and I hate to pull the card, but the US government should shut up about its criticisms of Russia currently. People in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.

The Chinese haven't criticized us for our questionable civil rights treatment of prisoners, simply because we'd unload on them for their human rights record. So we should follow the same code.

Akuma · Aug 12, 2008, 06:40 PM // 18:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Winterclaw

I think Russia should be banned from the next winter and summer olympics (if not more) for breaking from the traditions of the games. At the least they could have waited 2 weeks to attack.

SO, what YOU'RE saying is that Russia should have waited 2 weeks before defending THEIR citizens from dying for entertainment purposes?

Guild Wars is rotting brains.

Malice Black · Aug 12, 2008, 06:47 PM // 18:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snow Bunny

I'm relatively confused about this, hopefully someone can clarify.

The region, Ossetia, was autonomous, right? So why can't Georgia attack it without Russian involvement, without regards for the fact that Putin is a fairly aggressive and autocratic head of the Russian state?

Secondly, and I hate to pull the card, but the US government should shut up about its criticisms of Russia currently. People in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.

The Chinese haven't criticized us for our questionable civil rights treatment of prisoners, simply because we'd unload on them for their human rights record. So we should follow the same code.

Putin is president still? maybe in your timezone

Yale is slacking

Akuma · Aug 12, 2008, 06:55 PM // 18:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Malice Black

Putin is president still? maybe in your timezone

Yale is slacking

YALE UNIVERSITY

(putin is still prime minister, he's OBVIOUSLY controlling medvedev!!!!)

Malice Black · Aug 12, 2008, 06:57 PM // 18:57

Wouldn't be surprised tbh

Not up on my Russian politics, but he'll prob be in the election race again.

Snow Bunny · Aug 12, 2008, 06:57 PM // 18:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Malice Black

Putin is president still? maybe in your timezone

Yale is slacking

If you don't think Putin is holding the reins then you're kidding yourself.

And I go to Cambridge for a semester in the spring; we'll see how your flimsy English institutions hold up.